PS: The Statue of Liberty is Demonic, Too

[crabby_lioness]

Last night Mississippi Public Radio aired Terry Gross' interview with New Apostolic Reformation leader C. Peter Wegner on Fresh Air. 

My daughters, who I haven't let visit local Christian churches, had never heard Dominionist rhetoric before and were incredulous, outraged, and disgusted at what Wegner said, including but not limited to:

1) the Japanese Emperor had sex with the demonic Japanese Sun Goddess in order to cause hurricanes to fall on Japan and crash the Nippon,

2) that many politicians, especially Democrats, are controlled by demons,

3) that both non-Christians and non-Apostolic Christians are "part of the kingdom of darkness",

4) that democracy is bad for Christian churches, which should instead be controlled by authorized Apostles,

5) "...our goal is to try to have as many kingdom-minded believers in positions of influence in the arts and entertainment mountain as possible."  Not to mention in business, government, the media, education, religion, and the family;

6) to have as many Apostles in all branches of government as possible,

7) casting demons out of both individuals (which sounds suspiciously like "rebellious" children of Apostolic parents) and cities (apparently the demons give a copy of their Hierarchy and Employee List to the Apostolics so they know who's in charge where),

8) why Sarah Palin needed special protection against Witches

... there would be some people who practiced witchcraft and other forms of the occult who would try to take Sarah Palin down through certain rituals or curses or other techniques that witches have, and try to destroy her through those things.  (Gee, isn't laughter the most effective ritual against Palin?),

9) how they respect all religions, but don't think anyone should belong to any religion except their religion because all other religions are controlled by demons.  And this is respectful of other religions.  Honest.

But the thing that has Brighteyes (12) up in arms was when Wegner defended fellow Apostolic John Benefiel's claim that the Statue of Liberty is a demonic idol. 

GROSS: Okay. You know, you mentioned that you're close to John Benefiel, one of the organizers of this rally. Something he said that was very controversial, he called the Statue of Liberty a demonic idol. Do you agree with that?

WAGNER: I - let me say that I don't have enough information to disagree with it. I know it was given to the nation by - as a gift from the Freemasons of France. And there might be some demonic power that he and his friends discern in that statue, but I don't want to - I really don't want to make a strong commitment one way or another to that one.

Brighteyes read all 442 comments on the Fresh Air website.  She found people upset over nearly everything else Wegner said, but not this fact.  As it was left out of the abbreviated transcript she thought some people might not have listened to the full audio or read the full transcript and missed it.  She wanted me to be sure and tell everyone what "that idiot" said about one of our greatest national symbols.

The chilling part of all this is that due to the delay in airing the Fresh Air broadcast, we heard Wegner's interview yesterday as this story was breaking:  14 Peruvians shamans were butchered by members of a Protestant sect that believed the shamans were controlled by demons.

Does anyone believe they won't be doing the same thing in this country if they ever achieve their goals?

Comments

[talcat.livejournal.com]

I'm a Lib Dem in the UK and even the most bat shit insane of the Tory party (our coallition partners) have never thought that we are are controlled by demons.

Is guy for REAL?!

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately. I started hearing this insanity in Fundamentalist Christian churches a little over 30 years ago; it's a large part of why I left. It's the first time I've seen it get this kind of national exposure though.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

the Japanese Emperor had sex with the demonic Japanese Sun Goddess in order to cause hurricanes to fall on Japan and crash the Nippon.

I know I am massively missing the point, but every time some nutjob espouses this theory I want to scream. Not only is it just flat out wrong, but why the hell would the Japanese Emperor even consider having sex with his many time great-grandmother?

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I know! I started to point out that it was the equivalent of the medieval Christian warrior's vigil the night before being knighted where they prayed and meditated all night before the symbol of their god, but I didn't want to get off track. There was just way too much batshit craziness to cover.

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

Not only is it just flat out wrong, but why the hell would the Japanese Emperor even consider having sex with his many time great-grandmother?

Because of the demons! Pay attention. ;)

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

I am no Shinto expert, but my understanding is that no mortal other than the Emperor himself knows exactly what takes place during that ceremony. Is Wagner confessing to being a peeping tom? ;)

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

God tells him these things directly! Just like God tells him which demons are assigned where! ;)

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

I had never heard of Dominionist Christianity before. It sounds vaguely like Scientology. Is it just me, or is religion getting weirder? The normal bits are as normal and inoffensive as ever, but the nuttier bits seem to get nuttier every year. I can never quite decide whether to be worried about that or not. If this lot are going to keep insulting the Statue Of Liberty, though, I don't imagine they stand much chance of widening their support. Surely the only faster ticket to obscurity is insulting the flag.

They're quite sweet for wanting to protect Sarah Palin from the witches, though. That conjures up a lovely image!

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a Witch, the only way to protect Sarah Palin from rituals that will destroy her is to keep people from laughing at her. That's kinda tricky.

Dominionism's been going on since the late 1960s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism It took off with Hal Lindsey's 1970 bestseller The Late Great Planet Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late,_Great_Planet_Earth By the late 1970s it had taken over several Protestant Southern churches. By the middle 1980s I gave up trying to find a Southern Protestant church that hadn't been taken over by it and left Christianity.

In 1978 Dominionists took over the Southern Baptist Convention, then America's most liberal Christian church after the UUA, and made it one of the most extreme Conservative churches. Southern Baptists then spread throughout the nation, becoming the fastest growing Christian denomination in America.

The American Press seldom talks about what happens in American churches. This is wrong. They need more exposure to fresh air (pardon the pun).

[eumenidis.livejournal.com]

Didn't know Hal Lindsey had been so influential, I thought the swing toward extreme & irrational beliefs was just part of a general trend toward irrationality in American religion during the '60s. Thanks for the info.

The American Press seldom covers any important issue, or if they do, they do a disgracefully poor job.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

The shocking thing is how many comments condemned Fresh Air for covering it at all, as if it would go away if no one in the mainstream paid it any attention instead of getting bigger and more dangerous.

Lindsey was hugely influential, but he had fertile ground. Bruce Bawer's Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity has an excellent history of the movement. http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Jesus-Fundamentalism-Betrays-Christianity/dp/0609802224/

[eumenidis.livejournal.com]

Or think coverage of Bienfel's psycho ranting is somehow an attack on religion, though I doubt many touch finger to keyboard to protest the commonplace attacks on Islam, Wicca, atheism, etc.

Clearly. Thanks for the rec, I'll put it on my list. Any others?

[kiev4am.livejournal.com]

Oh man. Maybe I'm sheltered, but that really is several massive levels of batshit!insane higher than I've seen televised without irony before. It reads like a Monty Python spoof of a fundamentalist rant... only it's not. Scary. Then again, one hopes that broadcasting this stuff lays bare its lunacy to more people, which ought to be a good thing.

The scariest thing is the vague sense of organisation and mobilisation in his comments - the aim of filling government with his anti-democratic, superstitious, with-hunting co-religionists. Augh.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Well, he's already filled the Republican Party. Now all they have to do is win the next election.

[eumenidis.livejournal.com]

Well. The Statue of Liberty story is new to me, but the rest is pretty familiar. Dominionist sects have been involved in literal witch hunts in African nations which ended in torture in murder of the accused--who were frequently children--& during the '08 election the alternative media covered Palin's religious beliefs. In fact, a witch hunter from Africa was a guest minister at her church, & actually performed a ritual against witchcraft over her. You might still be able to find the video on YouTube or other sites.

Hell, YES, I think they'd do the same thing here; I've met some people who're spoiling for the chance.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

LJ was starting to choke on me from all the video links, otherwise I'd have put up that one and the one where Bienfel wants to rename DC the "District of Christ" and proclaimed that he had "more authority than Congress".

I honestly don't know what to say when people tell me they've never heard this before. It's been part of my life for 40 years now, since grade school. I've grown up with it, rather like growing up watching a giant poisonous dragon growing up in the same neighborhood to the delight of my neighbors, and having nothing to defend myself or others with against it.

[eumenidis.livejournal.com]

& there I go, teaching my granny how to suck eggs. I missed Bienfel's little oration, but I'm not surprised; disgusted, saddened, apprehensive, yeah, but not surprised.

Well, I've stated for the record that I'm a curmudgeon, so you won't be surprised by my view that most people have "never heard this before" because they haven't been paying attention or are denying the implications. Quite honestly, I'm always reminded of the final scene in "Judgment at Nuremburg" where the German judge says that "they never expected it to go so far".