Review: Torchwood S2 04 Meat

[crabby_lioness]

Or Torchwood's Debt to Irving Berlin

I'm beginning to see some patterns here.  In the grand old Doctor Who tradition, this is the fourth episode out of four where we've had a classic plot from the Giant Book of Classic TV and Film Plots.  The first was "conning the con man", the second was "undercover sleeper agent", the third was "fix the time paradox", and the fourth starts out as a  standard detective story that morphs into a  standard "sneak into the enemy fortress and take it from the inside" story. (I'm not dissing classic plots.   They're classic for a reason.  They work.)

It's the fourth episode out of four where the plot has only served as an prop to hang the character interactions on, which have been of a very high caliber thanks to the dialouge and the acting.

And it's the third episode out of four where Owen pulls out the solution (in most cases literally) that saves everybody at the last minute.

The recurring theme of "humans are the worst monsters of all" was picked up again.  It was introduced into the New Whoniverse in The Christmas Invasion and appeared in Torchwood before in Countrycide and Combat.  In some ways this story was the more disturbing than Countrycide.  You could distance yourself from the horror of Countrycide by saying that cannibalism was unlikely to occur on that scale, with that many people involved.  But no such distance was possible in Meat, where it was entirely believable that a handful of humans with more greed than compassion would butcher an alien for profit.  It's no different butchering a space whale than butchering a real whale, another potentially sentient creature.  In addition, you actually got to see the butchering go down, which most people find unappetizing.

The "Home" theme showed up again in the form of "You can't go home again."  This turned out to be true not just for the space whale but also for Jack.   He came back wanting everything to be the way it was before he left, with only himself having changed.  But real life isn't like that.  First Ianto informed him that they weren't going back to what they had before, and here Gwen does the same in no uncertain terms.  But more on that later.

First, let's talk about Rhys.  This was the third episde in a row where a guest star/supporting character has owned the story.  While Rhys has to share the spotlight with Gwen, most of the attention stays on him.

Rhys is one of those characters Russell T. Davies loves, and one of the main reasons so many people love Russell T. Davies.  He's a common man, a "nobody", but like many real common people he's endowed with courage, compassion, intelligence, and sensitivity just waiting for the right opportunity to blossum.  Davies' favorite characters are taken straight out of 1940s World War II movies with their "common soldier heroes" and given a modern makeover.  His writing vibrates to Aaron Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man and to Irving Berlin musicals.  For all his coarse, 21st Century vocabulary Rhys could have stepped straight out of a British revision of Yankee Doodle Dandy.

It's not just the costumes and the sets that are "retro" in Torchwood.  It's the people as well.

And this is why Jack Harkness works so well in Davies productions and wouldn't work in other places.  He's a 1920s - 1940s larger-than-life hero, but he's not totally out of context in RTD's 21st Century.  He's got Ianto as the 1940s secretary, Owen as the soldier-medic who's spent far too much time on the front lines, and he's surrounded by 1940s-style common-man heroes.  At the end of the day he's not out of place, he's completely at home.

So it's not just that humans are the worst monsters of all.  It's humans who are the greatest heroes of all.  The human spirit is capable of being both.  Once again, this comes straight out of World War II movies, which need no monsters worse than the human commanders on the other side.

It can't be coincidence that Cathy Treganna also wrote Out of Time and Captain Jack Harkness, with 1950s and 1940s characters respectively.

(What's funny is that even the fighting style Torchwood uses pays homage to World War II.  Jack, John, and Ianto all use what appears to be an updated form of Close Quarter Combat, the hybrid hand-to-hand combat technique taught to British and American soldiers in the 1940s.  What's funnier is that I had Jack teach it to Ianto in a fic I posted 15 months ago.)

Speaking of old fashioned-type characters, there's Ianto and his growing awesomeness.  I have this urge to find all the people who insisted he should have been executed or retconned at the end of Cyberwoman and dance on their heads, crying, "See, see, see! This is why Jack let him stay! This is the potential he saw then starting to awaken!"  But since I posted a fic about that over a year ago, I think I'll just smirk instead.

Ianto has been gearing up for the "Protector" role since Cyberwoman, where he showed the same loyalty, protectiveness, coolness and intelligence in nascent form.  You don't find potential like that every day, and you don't waste it when you do find it.  You cultivate it.  Now that he's got more experience, more training, more confidence, and better focus, he's really starting to fill out into the "Protector" role.

And that's good, because "Protector of the Team" is the one role Jack can't play in Torchwood.  He can play it in the Tardis, but here he has to be the Leader who sends people into danger.  He can't turn around and protect them from that danger at the same time.

One of the more interesting Jack/Ianto moments in the story is what doesn't happen in the boardroom scene.  When Jack questions whether Gwen and Rhys can work with their beloved in a dangerous and potentially combative situation without getting distracted, the two exchange looks which make it very clear that they wonder the same thing.  At the same time Jack and Ianto never look at each other, even though the kiss last episode and the frequently exchanged glances and smiles in this episode hint very strongly that they are back together again.  (I would say "make it clear" but someone would call me on their not having a bedroom scene yet.)  And during the combat scene there isn't a moment of doubt or hesitation on the part of either of them.  Either they don't have the same level of concern for each other that Gwen and Rhys share (which I doubt) or they are very confident in each other's abilities.

And that brings us to the relationships.

The first one is Torchwood Cardiff/the rest of the world.  This episode is one where you acutely feel how tiny Torchwood has become.  They really needed a Security unit or two for backup.  Pity Yvonne Hartman got all of them butchered at Canary Wharf.  It's time to put some serious work into replacing them.

It's also tme to start planning for what is going to happen when, not if, when Torchwood's cover is blown.  If "the 21st Century is when everything changes'' then that is one of the inevitable changes that is going to happen sooner or later.  They won't always be able to rely on retcon and a good cleanup.  Is Torchwood ready for it?

Next comes Tosh/Owen.  Some people have complained that they felt their characterizations had "slipped" in this episode, but I thought Tosh and Owen were very much in character.  It's true that Tosh has more relationships under her belt now, but it's also true that both Mary and Tommy initiated those relationships.  Tosh was the passive one.  Now that she has to initiate a relationship with Owen, she's all tongue-tied and doesn't know how.

It's also true that Owen is more sensitive these days.  But for all his talk of "wanting to settle down" he's still a scared rabbit when it comes to having an emotional relationship with someone else.  His early relationships were all strictly carnal.  The only reason he fell in love with Dian was because she snuck in under his radar.  Now that he has the opportunity to have another emotional relationship, he's gotten scared again.  I imagine he's hiding under the noble-sounding sentiment of "not wanting to hurt Tosh."  Last episode he saw that she was willing to endure great pain to be with someone she loved even if she could only be with him for one day, and I think he is terrified of the potential hurt that loving him could cause her. 

Then there's Gwen and her various relationships.

This episode goes to great lengths to show that Gwen and Rhys love each other, and that Gwen believes in Rhys as deeply as she has already been shown to believe in Jack.  That comes through in Gwen and Rhys' arguments as well as it does their tender moments, all of which are brilliantly played.  But what about Jack/Gwen?

My husband, who doesn't ship anybody, noticed that Jack was not jealous of Rhys because Rhys had Gwen.  Jack was jealous of Gwen because Gwen had Rhys and all that Rhys represents.  Not in a carnal way (Minds out of gutter, folks.  Please, please, please don't write Jack/Rhys!) but in an emotional way.

Gwen and Jack remind me of teenage siblings who were inseparable when they were younger but who have just discovered dating. All of a sudden one of them doesn't want to hang around the other all the time anymore, and the other's feelings get hurt.  And because they used to be inseparable, have incredibly strong feelings for each other, and are always going to remain best friends, they now find having to deal with the fact that the other has romantic feelings for someone else very hard, and they overreact to that change.  The look of hurt on Jack's face as he watched Gwen leave with Rhys did not seem to be as much "thwarted lover" to me as it did "hurt and sulky teenager".

 Irving Berlin nailed it with:

God help the mister
Who comes between me and my sister.
And God help the sister
Who comes between me and my man!

And that brings us to the Jack/Rhys relationship.  It's interesting that even though he admits he's jealous of Jack's good looks and the amount of time Jack spends with Gwen, Rhys is unfailingly nice to Jack.  The one exception to this is when Jack lashed out at Rhys for following them.  Rhys stands his ground and calls Jack on it, then when Jack backs down he goes smoothly back to being nice.  One of my favorite scenes is Rhys charming Jack in the truck.  We always get Jack charming someone else, so it was nice to see the roles reversed for once.

At that's good, because at the end of the day it's not just Gwen who needs Rhys.  Jack needs Rhys as well.  Gwen can never again be the wide-eyed innocent dazzled by the wonder that is their job, but Rhys can.  Gwen can never again demonstrate the resilience, intelligence, courage, and perspective of the common man; but Rhys can.  Most importantly, when Jack clings to Gwen to keep him grounded, to keep him from going off the deep end, he's in danger of pulling her over the edge with him.  It's Rhys who holds on to Gwen and keeps her from falling, which ultimately makes Rhys one of the key anchors keeping Jack human.  And Jack is smart enough to know that even if he hates to admit it.

It's not something that Ianto can do as well for Jack right now as Gwen can.  Ianto's fortes are loyalty and effectiveness, not perspective.  Jack needs both.  Maybe someday Ianto will provide both, but that relationship is still developing.  And speaking as someone who's been happily married for 19 1/2 years, even if your partner is your One True Love and Best Friend Forever, you need other good friends around you, even if it's only to gripe about your respective True Loves when they drive you crazy.

When Ianto watches Jack and Gwen argue in front of the Team, he doesn't look the least bit as if he feels his relationship with Jack is threatened in any way.  He looks like a boyfriend watching siblings quarrel heatedly and deciding it would be best if he didn't step onto that mine field.

But while Jack and Ianto display a new-found comfort with each other in this episode that was missing both earlier in this season and missing in all but the very end of End of Days  (Remember the Significant Glances in Combat?  No?  That's because there weren't any.), they are not yet comfortable enough to let the others in on the change in their relationship.  This is the same pattern they showed in the first season, but here they are supposed to be working on a deeper and more meaningful relationship.  Not to say that private relationships can't be deep and meaningful, but they are in danger of falling into the same trap they were in at the end of the first season.  And any meaningful relationship eventually has to go public.

Still, it's noteworthy that Jack not only accepts Ianto's right to slap him down in public, he turns to Ianto to ask if he deserves slapping down in public.  He doesn't do this with Gwen, but with Ianto.  I watched that scene thinking, "That is such a 'spouse' thing to do!"

I don't usually mention production values because they're not that important to me.  I don't care if the special effects are lousy as long as the story is good, hence my love for Blake's 7.  But the Mill did a far better job with Rhys and Gwen's "descent into the Hub" than they did with Jack and John's "descent into the Hub".   As for the space whale -- um, can I just say I'd rather watch a science fiction thriller with good kissing and lousy special effects than one with lousy kissing and good special effects? 

ETA: The excellent tanarianmakes the excellent point that a living creature constantly tortured but unable to die must have reminded Jack of his experience at the hands of the Master.

Comments

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

You pretty much said all I thought of this episode. Though hm I'm not sure if Jack/Gwen is sibling-like (though I'd enjoy it that way), because I think they're implying romantic feelings on Gwen's side. Mostly, however, I've been pretty impressed that with this series. Last series had so many good ideas that fell flat, it feels like they're finally following through on the awesome this series, even though there are still kinks to work out.

Still, it's noteworthy that Jack not only accepts Ianto's right to slap he down in public, he turns to Ianto to ask if he deserves slapping down in public. He doesn't do this with Gwen, but with Ianto. I watched that scene thinking, "That is such a 'spouse' thing to do!"
That's the first thing I noticed. It made me snicker.

Oh and thanks for the post on Jack and the Master thing. I have been having trouble fitting that into his characterization, and that fit for me (and I figured the writers knew it was a bit wtf with the comments on 'you do have a heart').

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

You pretty much said all I thought of this episode. Though hm I'm not sure if Jack/Gwen is sibling-like (though I'd enjoy it that way), because I think they're implying romantic feelings on Gwen's side. Mostly, however, I've been pretty impressed that with this series. Last series had so many good ideas that fell flat, it feels like they're finally following through on the awesome this series, even though there are still kinks to work out.

I was thinking more of Jack's viewpoint than Gwen's. As we found out last series, Gwen can lust all she likes, but she ain't pulling Jack as long as she's hanging on to Rhys and he doesn't want to join in.

Still, it's noteworthy that Jack not only accepts Ianto's right to slap he down in public, he turns to Ianto to ask if he deserves slapping down in public. He doesn't do this with Gwen, but with Ianto. I watched that scene thinking, "That is such a 'spouse' thing to do!"

That's the first thing I noticed. It made me snicker.

It could reference another type of relationship of course, but it's still a very, very close one.

Oh and thanks for the post on Jack and the Master thing. I have been having trouble fitting that into his characterization, and that fit for me (and I figured the writers knew it was a bit wtf with the comments on 'you do have a heart').

It also refers back to a conversation regarding Jack from last series that went, "So the tin man does have a heart."

[eresse21.livejournal.com]

I came by this review by accident and was struck by one particular point so strongly that I had to respond to it. You liken Jack and Gwen to close siblings struggling to deal with the knowledge that they are not the most important people in each other's lives any longer. I did see that dynamic as I watched their scenes but the relationship reflected back at me was between my mother-in-law and my husband of 22 years.

When he first brought me to meet his parents, his mom, while very gracious the whole time, could not quite hide her distress over my presence. I was the only woman he had ever let them meet and that told her we were serious enough to probably get married. And when we did, she was the one who cried, not my mother. Throughout the first decade of marriage, I honestly felt she was in competition with me for his attention and affection and there were times she let her displeasure be known at not being the most important female in his life any longer. She would leave us or her smile would lessen whenever we overtly showed our affection for each other. And she very often usurped my place with certain gestures designed to pull his attention back to her. But I rarely resented her because I knew she was not aware of how she was behaving. That it was difficult for her to let go and would need time to adjust to the change in her relationship with her favorite son. She eventually did and I simply adore her.

I saw the same dynamic between Jack and Gwen and found myself shaking my head at the similarity between their situation and my husband's with his mom. And, yes, Ianto looked very much like a lover who was not about to let himself get caught in the crossfire of a familial fray. The expression of relief on his face when it was over was priceless.

I think your assessment of all the other relationships were dead on. I've gone back and read your other reviews and find them extremely intelligent, insightful and wonderfully literate. You understand the way people's minds work and perceive the deeper nuances of the subtler scenes and that's something needed when viewing a series like TW. It relies quite a bit on the dictum "show, don't tell". There aren't that many anvils dropped on viewers' heads; viewers are apparently assumed to be intelligent and perceptive enough to draw the right/logical conclusions from the clues most episodes are quite liberally laced with.

I enjoyed reading each and every one of your reviews/essays and look forward to seeing what you glean from future episodes. Thank you for such succinct, provocative pieces. And my apologies for this rather lengthy response.

Eressë

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I came by this review by accident and was struck by one particular point so strongly that I had to respond to it. You liken Jack and Gwen to close siblings struggling to deal with the knowledge that they are not the most important people in each other's lives any longer. I did see that dynamic as I watched their scenes but the relationship reflected back at me was between my mother-in-law and my husband of 22 years.

That's a very insightful story. Thank you for sharing it.

I think your assessment of all the other relationships were dead on. I've gone back and read your other reviews and find them extremely intelligent, insightful and wonderfully literate. You understand the way people's minds work and perceive the deeper nuances of the subtler scenes and that's something needed when viewing a series like TW. It relies quite a bit on the dictum "show, don't tell". There aren't that many anvils dropped on viewers' heads; viewers are apparently assumed to be intelligent and perceptive enough to draw the right/logical conclusions from the clues most episodes are quite liberally laced with.

Thank you. I couldn't do this with just about any other show I know about because they don't give me enough to work with. Except for the "life is bleak and depressing" ones, and I just don't want to go there. I like my futures Technicolor, darn it.

And my apologies for this rather lengthy response.

My dear, I assure you that I love reading lengthy and insightful posts even more than I love writing them. Plus it's a lot easier! ;)

[foreverrhapsody.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything remotely intelligent to say, except for the fact that I love your reviews, and how you seem to get in the minds of all the characters. 'tis a great thing :-D

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Another wonderful review. For me, Torchwood is about what is *not* said, they actually treat the viewers like they are intelligent and don't hit you over the head with things.

'He's a 1920s - 1940s larger-than-life hero, but he's not totally out of context in RTD's 21st Century. He's got Ianto as the 1940s secretary, Owen as the soldier-medic who's spent far too much time on the front lines, and he's surrounded by 1940s-style common-man heroes.' I do love classic hero types, I've always been a big fan of old movies.

Speaking of old fashioned-type characters, there's Ianto and his growing awesomeness. I have this urge to find all the people who insisted he should have been executed or retconned at the end of Cyberwoman and dance on their heads, crying, "See, see, see! This is why Jack let him stay! This is the potential he saw then starting to awaken! It's so wonderful when the writers let a character live up to his potential we knew he had. We saw glimpses of it in Series 1, and now he's really is much more then Jack's part-time shag. Before Series 2 started I was a bit worried that they would make Ianto *just* about his relationship with Jack.

'can I just say I'd rather watch a science fiction thriller with good kissing and lousy special effects than one with lousy kissing and good special effects? ' Yes you can, because that's the same way I feel. I can look past bad special effects as long as there is believable snogging character development.

'It's Rhys who holds on to Gwen and keeps her from falling, which ultimately makes Rhys one of the key anchors keeping Jack human.' It will be interesting to see what happens if and when they kill Rhys off. I really think they will before Series 2 is over, this is Torchwood after all, and no-one gets a happy ending.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I do love classic hero types, I've always been a big fan of old movies.

Me too. :) The first time Jack appeared in The Empty Child, when he turned around and smiled for the camera, some long-forgotten part of me relaxed. Oh, it's Proper Hero, I thought. "He doesn't know it yet, but he will." as the Doctor said in that story.

this is Torchwood after all, and no-one gets a happy ending.

I don't think we've really seen enough to say that yet. A rough ride, yes. But I'm not sure about the unhappy endings.

[yami-chan.livejournal.com]

Hey! I just sort of followed a trail of links here.

I really love what you said here. I agree with just about everything, I think. This is especially so for Jack and Gwen's sibling relationship. I'll admit that when I first saw this episode I grumbled loudly about the Jack/Gwen stuff but after re-watching it and talking to a friend about the episode, I found myself coming to the same conclusion as you and your husband. Jack really does seem like he's got some irrational, brotherly fear of losing Gwen. He gets rather cranky, confrontational and pouty. There was another Rhys related episode like that too, I believe. Can't remember which one though. Might have imagined it for all I know.

I'm not sure I fully agree with you on the Jack/Ianto front for this episode, but I can absolutely see where you're coming from. Ianto slapping Jack down is absolutely a 'husbandy' thing to do. And I absolutely agree that Jack trusts Ianto to take care of himself in a fight. However, I sometimes feel that the series can be a little too subtle. As where there were many scenes that seemed like there were meaningful, communicative, looks between Jack and Ianto... I don't think the scenes adequately conveyed everything you're saying. Which is really my biggest issue with Torchwood as a whole. They're not always perfectly clear.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Hey! I just sort of followed a trail of links here.

Cool! Stick around, pull up a chair, and look through the Archives. You might find something else you like.

However, I sometimes feel that the series can be a little too subtle. As where there were many scenes that seemed like there were meaningful, communicative, looks between Jack and Ianto... I don't think the scenes adequately conveyed everything you're saying. Which is really my biggest issue with Torchwood as a whole. They're not always perfectly clear.

I love Torchwood for giving my imagination a workout. If they spoonfed us everything I'd have fewer toys to play with.

That said, I really wouldn't mind more Jack/Ianto moments. Not in the least! :)

[shirasade]

I'm always awaiting your reviews with great anticipation - you have such great insights and manage to spell out much of what I myself think and can't really articulate.

I'm not quite sure the writers will go the platonic/sibling love route with Jack and Gwen (considering some of their comments in the series 1 audio commentaries), but that's what I saw in this ep as well, much to my relief. And Ianto as the Protector? I hope we'll see more of that!

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I'm always awaiting your reviews with great anticipation - you have such great insights and manage to spell out much of what I myself think and can't really articulate.

Thank you. This turned into a bit of a monster, didn't it? I thought I'd never get finished!

I'm not quite sure the writers will go the platonic/sibling love route with Jack and Gwen (considering some of their comments in the series 1 audio commentaries), but that's what I saw in this ep as well, much to my relief.

Apparently the producers sit down and watch the entire series after it's run and re-evaluate. I'm glad they changed their mind about the direction for Jack and Gwen.

And Ianto as the Protector? I hope we'll see more of that!

Me too! I'm looking forward to seeing how next week's Dark!Ianto will factor into the overall Knight!Ianto theme.

[sirocco-360.livejournal.com]

Your description of Ianto as Protector fits in with a theory I've had for the past week that Jack hired (and kept) him because he knew Ianto would do What Needs To Be Done, even - or especially - when Jack cannot.

I've been entertaining the idea - based on very vague spoilers and a *lot* of pure speculation on my part - that at the end of the season Jack's loyalty will be torn between the team and someone who poses a threat to the team (or the world), and Jack will either make the wrong choice or won't be able to choose at all, whereupon Ianto will have to make the decision for him. And it will, of course, be the correct one.

I enjoy reading your essays. :)

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Thank you. As I said, you don't find someone with that kind of potential every day.

[tanarian.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is brilliant! You've covered things that hadn't occurred to me and yes, I think maybe the relationship is more sibling to sibling than parent to child (which is a lot more confortable, come to think of it, given the fact that I think Gwen does have a more carnal agenda than Jack). Thank you! Would it be all right, some time over the weekend, if I link through to this so people can see another viewpoint that tallies with mine?

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Of course, hon. I'm glad you liked it. If you'll scroll up through the comments one poster compared Gwen's relationship to Jack to her own relationship with her clingy MIL.

[catsfiction.livejournal.com]

Absolutely brilliant analysis. So many things you nailed. I'm with you on the "retro" feel of the show and Cath Treganna's scripts in particular - didn't she also write "Last Man Down"? For all the talk of being street cred and ahead of the cultural curve, there are some very old-fashioned values at the heart of TW, and also some very British ones, particularly emotional restraint and leaving the viewers to fill in blanks rather than verbalising too much emotional stuff.

A long time ago I likened the last few minutes of "Doomsday" to "Brief Encounter" and other movies of that period - two terribly in love, but also terribly decent, people not touching each other and sacrificing all for the common good. As you say at one point, classic plots succeed because they're good.

Rhys is, in some ways, the Rose of TW. He's courageous, has a strong moral compass and is no fool. But he is also very direct and grounded, and he has the potential to pull them all down to earth. Maybe he's got a part to play as the first Everyman character to confront Torchwood and be allowed to remember what he saw. That's a significant step forward, because in the end you have to ask whether protecting humanity is best achieved by fighting their battles and not telling them the truth, or teaching them how to do that stuff themselves.

All in all, you did justice to a fantastic episode, the first one that, I felt, showed the potential for this show to improve on DW.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I've had the RTD/World War II movies comparison in the back of my head for a long time, but I was afraid the British fans would jump on me for being America-centric.

[jbsnow.livejournal.com]

*reads*

my brain hurts. in a good way :o)

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Have a brain tonic.

*pops lid*

Ah, refreshing! :P

[urnssadomen.livejournal.com]

First of all, your review has always been my favorite.

I'm not sure if you have already mentioned in your relationship piece, but as I was reading your review, I couldn't help but notice the comparison/contrast method they kept using in Jack/Ianto relationship.
Almost every time there was a Jack/Ianto intimate moment, there was always another couple put in place as a contrast/mirror image.

For the most obvious ones:
1. When Jack revived Ianto in Cyberwoman, there was Owen/Gwen's pure carnal kiss out of the temporary fear contrasting Jack slipped from pure recuse purpose to affection;
2. S2E3, Jack and Ianto kissing each other, there was Tosh/Tommy; I guess that was contrast between a slow developing relationship and a there-is-no-tomorrow relationship;
3. Last but not the least, in MEAT, the contrast between Jack/Ianto and Gwen/Rhys: the former had complete confident in each other's ability and self restraint as to the latter's lack of; the latter's openly shown passion toward each other, the certainty of making commitment toward each other, as to the former's lack of or discretion toward such relationship. In addition to that, the stage position of two couples was also interesting: like you said before, Ianto was shown having Jack's back all the time, this was emphasized in ep4, in contrast to Gwen and Rhys facing each other all the time.

As I was writing this, I suddenly got the feeling of dualism... for some reason I always found those theological/mythological elements erotic...(hmmm, seemed I channeled Cpt. Harkness for a second there...)

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

There is a lot in Torchwood that is erotic, both expected and unexpected(stopwatch?)! I'm sorry, I just found out from a spoiler something (very tame actually) that Ianto tells Martha that Jack wants to do that -- guh! It's tame, it's sweet, it's really cute, it's -- why did I have to have children? I need some privacy and my vibrator RIGHT NOW!

[antelope-writes.livejournal.com]

This is Duikermeisie, with a fic-only blog (keeping it separate from my generic ramblings). Mind if I friend you, since I'm over here often enough?

I was actually quite disappointed with this episode. The first three were so much fun, and this one had enough of the stuff in season 1 that annoyed me to annoy me now. I'd thought they'd gotten over it.

Like the big plot holes...top-secret covert operatives wouldn't notice a little white car that looks suspiciously like one of the operative's fiance's car following them all the way there? Did Gwen never look in the rear view mirror? And how about Rhys knowing where the warehouse was located, when the previous delivery driver only met them at a designated pickup location? Bad guys not real smart, there.

Or like once again reducing a pair of very competent and nuanced characters into the woman pining away for her Knight in Shining Armour (TM) and the man telling her no as hard as he could? I got sick of that in S1 and I'm still sick of it.

Some of the camera work just struck me as clumsy. After the fireworks of KKBB, the rollercoaster ride of Sleeper, and the sweet poignancy of TTLM, this one felt like the TV equivalent of needing to let out a great big huge sneeze and just as you inhale it goes away and you still have a scratchy nose and watery eyes and a cranky disposition.

It's really too bad, because those things messed up what was otherwise neat character development in a good story. It's impossible to not empathize with the alien, and it was lovely to see Jack override everybody saying they would do everything they could to save it.

Jack/Gwen:

This struck me as not so much competition, but Jack feeling on a personal level like he's losing his best friend (really, who else do we see him confide in?) and on a professional level the security of his operation was compromised. If I were in Jack's place, and I had an employee blow an operation like when Gwen jumped out and started babbling, I'd be PISSED. That's the kind of thing that gets people killed in real life. Professionally Gwen is now a major liability, and he'll have to cope with that.

Jack/Rhys:

I get the distinct feeling that if they'd met anywhere else they'd be drinking buddies. After the initial fight they treat each other with a lot of respect and understanding. Jack yelling at Rhys wasn't alpha-male stuff, but understandable anger at having his operation blown. He earned Jack's respect afterwards with how he handled the situation he found himself in. Kai Owen had an air of absolute delight about him the entire time, and I think that no matter how good an actor you are, some things are impossible to fake. He was having a blast through the entire episode, and it showed.

Ianto and Owen:

Role reversal. In the past, notably in S1, Owen is Billy Badass and Ianto is more of a subtle strength. Here, Ianto is the superhero action figure and Owen is Beast from X-men. The scene where the two of them are walking behind the warehouse speaks volumes about how well the two are now working together. Ianto openly covers Jack's back for the first time in Sleeper, and here is his first scene where he is openly covering Owen's back. It is in stark contrast to CJH. I like where their relationship is going.

Jack/Ianto:

Was I the only one who noticed Ianto smiling very slightly and looking up at Jack's office twice during the "sad and single" scene?

Overall I'd give it a 3 out of 5. Like in S1, the actors managed to carry a somewhat shaky story, especially Kai Owen.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Jack/Ianto:

Was I the only one who noticed Ianto smiling very slightly and looking up at Jack's office twice during the "sad and single" scene?

No, I noticed that as well. Ianto totally had a 'cat that got the cream' vibe going on in that scene!

[antelope-writes.livejournal.com]

I ran out of room in the last post to flesh out the Owen/Ianto relationship here. The gradual transition from teaboy to The Guardian has been batted about quite a bit...I'm just as interested in how Owen is changing.

Last season, Ianto was the Man Who Takes Care of Things and Owen was a combination between Agent/Guardian and Doctor. This year, Owen has relinquished the Guardian role to Ianto and become the Doctor (as in physician) and Counselor. In every major trauma scene this year, where a character either dies or learns he/she is about to die, Owen is present. It's the so-called heart of Gwen, only Owen seems to understand so much better than Gwen what true compassion is. Gwen would not have knowingly administered a lethal drug mixture to the alien whale, nor would she have shot Beth. Owen was the one to take time to help Tosh when Tommy left, and he took a bullet to keep John from torturing Tosh. (More on Owen and Tosh later.) If Jack's bedside manner sucks, Owen's has improved dramatically.

You pointed out the emerging theme of Owen saving the day...the bit you didn't say is that he is saving the day through non-violent measures. Spearing John in the heart with a blood cocktail must have hurt like hell, but they all lived. No guns--and conspicuously, John was the only one using weapons after the confrontation in the autopsy bay. In Meat, the alien died, but one might argue that a relatively pain-free death by needle is better (for mercy killing) than gunshot, flensing it alive, or any manner of other death. This fits with Owen's role as caretaker and doctor--do no harm, but when you must do harm, do as little as possible and as kindly as possible. He wouldn't have done this last year.

Regarding Owen and Ianto together, all last season they were at each other's throats, and when they weren't Ianto might as well have been furniture to Owen. In every episode this year, Owen has treated Ianto with respect and professional courtesy (with the notable exception of expecting him to get Tommy a cup of tea). Big difference from CJH, with fists and guns and hurtful words. It really gelled here, where we see Ianto and Owen working together on a field mission for the first time. (I think this was actually my favourite bit of character development in the whole episode.) In KKBB it was Ianto and Gwen, in Countrycide it was Ianto and Tosh. Body language says that both men are on alert, but that they trust one another. Later, when Ianto tases the man who Owen has up against a wall, they nod to one another. The subtext was loud and clear: "Thank you, I trust you, let's get to work." Ianto, for his part, does what he has to do and then just steps back and lets Owen get on with it. It takes a lot of faith in a coworker to do that.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

It's significant that Owen feels he can allow someone else to be the heavy. Last year he challenged Jack for that role, this year he doesn't blink about turning it over to Ianto. He's obviously a lot less prickly this year.

[monkat.livejournal.com]

First, I hope you circle back and continue fics mentioned in your review. Second, good review. I always have to watch things a few times before my brain allows for getting beneath the surface of things. Having just watched the ep on YouTube to stave off spoilerage until BBC America airs it, I was struck with petty, silly things like how RTD seems to have a "Vegetarian Agenda" far more insidious than the supposed gay one. ;) Poor, poor space-manatee. (Ianto's despair at the thought of caring for a space-whale was amusing, though I believe I commented to a friend that, really, after the dinosaur, the team, and lord-give-him-strength, Jack, a space-whale would probably be a walk in the park.) And, YAY JACK for hitting on Rhys' assistant, who was a pretty much average person as much as Rhys. I just like to see the love spread around to the non-designer clothing-wearing folks, you know?

Serious thoughts time. Or at least less gleefully un-serious.

I'm not a fan of Gwen, particularly when she interacts with Rhys because, going all the way back to "Everything Changes," she just lies and lies and lies to him, even before her job was anything but mundane. The affair, the RetConning, the never turning her ringer off on missions but then blowing him off/blaming him when an innocent call nearly gets her killed, -again-, just seems so... passive aggressive? Needlessly cruel? Thoughtless? I don't even know! But, it's a lousy way to treat anyone, and Rhys seems like a decent bloke. This ep only highlighted his decentness. I'd like Gwen a lot more if she either treated Rhys better or ended their relationship. That said, I certainly understand the necessity for an "anchor" to the real/rest of the world when under stress like TW must put on someone. But does needing really justify having when the anchor gets the short end of the stick every single time?

(Also, is it okay that I -love- Rhys for treating a GSW with ice cream, 'cause I do.)

The obvious contrast between Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto in the warehouse was interesting. I don't think either couple was wrong/bad/careless. But they really were charging up opposite ends of the spectrum as far as "oh no, my love's in danger!" reactions. It was also interesting to see that both Ianto and Rhys did quite well, thanks, under the circumstances and their partner's reactions. There wasn't a "right" answer; something we rarely see in TV storytelling ...without being beat over the head with it.

Tosh and Owen felt... a little forced in the awkwardness/cluelessness. (My typing these words will result in a lightning strike any moment: I could win prizes for my own cluelessness in these things, to the point where friends have had to point out someone who's been throwing themselves at me for an entire convention only to have me go, "Really? Nah... -Really?!-" ...but I'm not nearly so sex-obsessed as a certain medical professional; nor am I employed for my skills at detection.) I don't have a vote as to if they should get together eventually or not, but the awkward/clueless could stop any time. The pterodactyl's probably better at this than these two.

[duikermeisie.livejournal.com]

The Tosh/Owen nonsense is really starting to annoy me.

If any character in this show is precariously close to being a cliche, it's Tosh. Geeky, introverted techie asian girl pining after a boy? Yeeeaaaaah. It's maddening, because when the writers aren't pouring that schlock down our throats, we get to watch a wonderful character with unusual courage, fantastic intelligence, an adrenaline junkie streak, and the ability to save the day at her own expense. The Tosh/Owen non-relationship is also approaching a cliche, and it's to the detriment of both characters.

I don't see Owen's repeated brush-offs of Tosh as being clueless, rather he knows what she is doing and just flat out isn't interested. I watch body language relentlessly, and these actors are damn good at it. He's telling her "Go away" in just about every way he can, and she's not listening. I know why it's in there...the authors are contrasting Tosh/Owen as sad and single and we get the implication the Ianto is not single (just not talking about it)...but that doesn't make it any less irritating.

[ola-sw.livejournal.com]

And during the combat scene there isn't a moment of doubt or hesitation on the part of either of them. Either they don't have the same level of concern for each other that Gwen and Rhys share (which I doubt) or they are very confident in each other's abilities.

I haven't read through all the comments (and probably will do it only after watching the episode for the second time), so maybe someone else already pointed out what I'm about to say, and if so - sorry for the repetition.

What actually stood out for me in the combat scene is the fact Jack didn't shoot when the bad guy was struggling with Ianto. Sure, it could've been because they were moving to fast, or something was blocking them from view, but I doubt that. There's a reason for that scene in the beginning of 2x01 when he appears behind Ianto - Jack's not afraid to shoot. Giving us those two seconds of Jack trying to aim and then, frustrated, lowering his gone must mean something, especially after that look they shared in the conference room.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I and some of the fic-writers I've read, including sarcasticbabble, assumed Jack was giving Ianto time to free himself by distracting the goons.

[veejean45.livejournal.com]

Well, I finally got to watch "Meat"--as a Canadian, I have to wait for some wonderful person to post it on YouTube--and all I can say is your review is dead on. I always saw Jack and Gwen as siblings rather than lovers and their squabbling in this ep just confirms it for me. Ianto is just getting better and better, from the way he and Owen can now work together to where he coolly tasers those two assholes after nearly getting shot in the face. The only part I didn't like--apart from the lost "whale" dying--was how Tosh was acting. She was so confident and sexy last week I was disapointed with her here.

[j-harkness.livejournal.com]

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[minotaurs.livejournal.com]

Hmm, very interesting analysis. I agree with a lot of what you say, which makes me feel better about the relationships in Torchwood, but then I remember that RTD's favorite themes also include "unrequited love" and "deceived by a lover". They were a central part of QAF, and of Mine All Mine.

He trusts his viewers to see the details, and he's particularly adept at the unspoken moments of communication, so it's odd that's he not making it clearer what the connection is between Jack and Ianto, or the basis for the relationship between Jack and Gwen - is it familial or romantic?

[eumenidis.livejournal.com]

...Irving Berlin? Oh! Yes, I see...

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Heh. Yep.... :D

[fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com]

He's a 1920s - 1940s larger-than-life hero, but he's not totally out of context in RTD's 21st Century. He's got Ianto as the 1940s secretary, Owen as the soldier-medic who's spent far too much time on the front lines, and he's surrounded by 1940s-style common-man heroes.

By Jove, I think you've cracked it! I might have to quote you on this, in future TW-ish discussions...

As I'm catching up to the show, now, I'm catching up to your reviews, too, which I really enjoy. Thanks for posting them!

PS - I'm with you re: no Rhys/Jack, pls. ;)

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and go ahead. It's a good time for catching up, I posted the DMW review 10 minutes ago.

Gwen

[criccieth.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, when we saw Jack saying that if Gwen wasn't at Torchwood, he would know the difference to simply be an acknowledgement of the changes that have come about because of her. Think about "Day One" - Jack, quite frankly, doesn't give a toss about Carys. He doesn't care about the men who are dying. It seems the only thing he cares about in the whole episode is when Carys nearly damages the hand! Gwen lays into him about it, Jack even comments on that to Rhys in "Meat".

I think that the Jack we saw in Season 1 had stopped caring, largely. After so long alone, I think he was basicaly shutting everyone and everything out. Owen, Susie, Tosh and Ianto are all so deeply damaged in their own ways that what you had was five people who worked in the same building and had to work with each other but didn't really connect with each other. When Gwen arrived it started a series of events that changed the whole team. Then Jack's re-union with the doctor restored him, in some measure, to the man he used to be. I think at that moment, with Gwen basically challenging him to Retcon her, Jack was thinking back to how the team and Jack himself had been, before Gwen. And he passionately doesn't want that. The look in his eyes, to me, was more scared then loving.

that said, IANTO's reaction was interesting. Unsure whether it was a sort of "woah, don't want to get caught in that argument" sort of thing (I've seen the same sort of look on my husband's face when I'm having a row with a family member) or a "do I really want to know what just happened there?" (which might imply he's wondering just what Jack's feelings for Gwen are). That said, his behaviour in later episodes doesn't make it seem like he feels Gwen is a challenge or a threat, so......and of course we have that lovely smug smirk/"trying hard not to laugh" look on Ianto's face when Tosh goes on about being single. And the intense looks from Jack in the Hub....

[kul-breez.livejournal.com]

Just reading this now - really great! In MEAT I always thought that at the end, when Jack is fighting with Gwen he is really talking about (projecting) his fears regarding him and Ianto. He knows they are liable to get each other killed at some point and for Ianto that would be terminal. It's why in the episode, when they split up at the warehouse, Ianto goes with Owen and Jack stays with the girls.

I always figure the two (Jack/Ianto) have a long talk about this later on! (A relationship talks!) I haven't seen the episode in a long time, so I'll have to bookmark this entry and give it another look!